Q&A: Tips for handling Mother's Day while being estranged?

Moving on. Detaching. Letting go. Damn the Torpedos!

When someone you care about thinks you suck.

Since 2006 my daughter has had a blog called my-family-sucks. I have not been reading her blog because I know that she uses it to denigrate me and others who have loved her.

In 2005 and 2006 we communicated through emails. Her emails were much like what she has on her blog. You might ask "How do I know what the blog is like if I don't read her blog?" I know what the blog is like because in 2006 I clicked on a link that I found on the sitemeter that gives me information about visitors to my blog. The link represented a visit to my blog by a visitor who had been on a blog called my-family-sucks. I suspected that the blog belonged to my daughter so I did not click the link when I saw it there on several occasions but in the spring of 2006 I did click the link and found myself on my daughter's blog reading more of the same of what I had seen in the emails that I had told her not to send.

I had told her that I would not read her emails if she continued to denigrate me and that I did not want to hear from her again until she wanted to have a relationship with me. I saw the blog as her way of trying to get around that so that she could continue to denigrate me. I am certain that she thought I would read every word she wrote and that she would have what she wanted: a means to continue to denigrate me (and others) where she thought that I would read it. I do not have to read it and I did not visit it again except by the rare accident when one of her posts turned up in a search on the subject of estrangements and I clicked a link too quickly before I realized where it went or someone sent me an email with a link and I clicked it without realizing where I would be. As soon as I found myself there, I would always leave instantly, seeing as little as possible.

However, I haven't been entirely ignorant of the things that she has written since 2006. I have friends who read her blog regularly. They are friends who have an interest in estrangement as they are experiencing estrangements too and are trying to understand them. So they visit many places on the internet including my daughter's blog. Sometimes they have told me what they found there. So much so that I asked them not to tell me the negative things. And then I asked them not to tell me the positive things either. It hurt too much to know. I asked them to let me know only if there was an emergency. Otherwise I have not wanted to know.

But sometimes in my research on estrangements on the internet posts from her blog turn up in my search results and it is hard not to see the words visible in the synopsis of the post that appears on Google. Also I can see in my sitemeter statistics the visits of those who arrive at my blog by clicking on some post that has a title that includes words like "maniac mother"  or "mama drama." So there is an url there in my sitemeter statistics that would go straight to her blog if I clicked it. I don't click these links.
Also I can see in my sitemeter statistics that my daughter herself clicks on the links in her own blog so that she goes straight to my blog from her blog. It is as though she is saying, "Ha ha, Here I am. Click the link. I wrote something about you. I want you to read it. Click the link." I have not clicked.

When we are members of family, we really learn how to push each other's buttons. I have a very hot temper. I do not enjoy being denigrated. I grew up with parents who were out of control and I was manipulated by them for many years. I have attended many twelve step group meetings for Adult Children of Alcohollics. I know about "letting go and letting God." I know that it is best to walk away when someone, for no good reason, wants to pick a fight. I know that nothing would ever be accomplished by my initiating any communication with my daughter in her current way of being. That if she ever wanted a relationship with me, that she could let me know via a phone call and I would be willing to talk with her. I will not fight with her on the internet. I will not have a relationship with her where I would let her have fun hurting me. That is sick behavior. As long as she does it or wants to do it, I think that is not a good sign about her mental health.

I haven't seen her for over fourteen years. She doesn't want a relationship but there she is in my site statistics. It seems like a form of communication although a strange one.

Being denigrated is something that I have experienced from my parents too. It is something that I do not tolerate any more. However, when someone that I love does it and that person has a condition that perhaps makes them believe that they are doing something that makes sense to them, it is hard to know what to do other than cutting them off. Just walking away makes a great deal of sense to me. However, I am her mother. I do care about her. I would like it if I were able not to let her words affect me as much as they have in the past. I would like to react less. If there is ever a time when we do communicate again, it would be good if I could contain my temper and not react to the words.

Those who work in the mental health profession must deal with this sort of thing all the time: the words of those who believe that they are saying something perfectly sensible when what is coming out of their mouths makes no sense to anyone else. There must be some sense there. Something behind the words that makes sense to her if not to me.

As I am a person who does not react well to being called names and being treated badly, I would advise most people to walk away and not look back if they are walking in the same kind of shoes that I am wearing. In this case, there she is, week after week, year after year, writing about how badly her family sucks, how much she doesn't want to have anything to do with them, how awful they are. And there she is in my sitemeter statistics, continuing to visit my blog.

Others have said to me that we are communicating in a strange indirect way on the internet. Most of the time that is not my goal. There have been times when I intended to communicate with my daughter on my blog but 99% of the time my communications are meant for others who have been estranged rather than for my daughter. But I can see how people might think that I have written something for her.

This particular post that I am writing now is written for everyone, including her. She is subscribed to my blog so she will see that I have updated my blog with a post and she will read it shortly after my posting it. 

I have been asking myself and my friends for some time if it would make sense for me to visit her blog and read it, to desensitize myself to her insults, to try to figure out what it is that she is trying to communicate in back of the insults. It can't be that she wants to drive me away because I am not there. I have not been reading it.

I have felt so very sad that she suffers from bipolar disorder. This is something that I certainly didn't see coming. Perhaps she even feels that somehow, due to genes, I am somehow at fault for her having this disorder? My grandmother had a mental illness but it wasn't bipolar disorder. My mother suffers from Borderline Personality Disorder and has been hospitalized on many occasions. She has been going to psychiatrists for over fifty years. People with that disorder often have bipolar disorder too. I don't know whether or not my mother also has bipolar disorder. I don't know whether or not my daughter has Borderline Personality Disorder. I have at least one cousin who has bipolar disorder. I don't know if my daughter inherited whatever is wrong through my genes. It is a reasonable conclusion to make. It is something that I have been horrified to learn has happened.

I hate it that my daughter has had to suffer any mental illness and wish that there was something that I could have done to prevent it from occurring. As I said, this is something that I never saw coming.

Mental illness is something that I learned years ago, because of my experience with my mother, that I could not fix for another person. There are treatments but the person has to be willing to be treated. The person has to become aware that they are ill. My mother was not fully aware. The treatments involve more than just talk and more than just medication. But not everyone is willing to accept treatment or even accept the extent of the illness. Many people struggle with it and resent having it and continue to try to live life without any interruptions or concessions, without getting all of the treatment that they need. Mental illness results in so much tragedy.

I know that my daughter, when she reads this, will resent my even talking about mental illness and that she will believe that I am somehow avoiding "blame" or "responsibility" for not being good enough or enough enough of something that she wanted and that she believes I did not provide. Her anger at me and her father is boundless.

She is now forty-one, soon to be forty-two and she wishes to believe that she is a victim and has been mistreated and unloved and unwanted and that it is poor poor her and everyone else is awful. What I want her to know is that I love her. I don't love her in the same way that I once did love her. That had to change. I am not so strong that I can continue to adore someone who talks about me the way that she has. But I do love her and care about her and what happens to her. If I did not love her, I would never have set up a website or a blog. If I did not love her, I would not be talking about her now.

I do hope that she gets better help for her illness and that she triumphs. I do wish good things for her. I can't speak for her father. I don't know what he thinks or feels. But for myself I can say that I do miss having her in my life, I do wish her well, and for now I  will continue not to read her blog as it seems to be the wisest avenue to take. But I might change my mind on that. I wanted to let her know that I was thinking about it and why I was thinking of reading it. My goal would be to develop a thicker skin. My question for myself is, "Do I really need to develop a thicker skin?" Perhaps my skin is fine the thickness that it is and I would be best to continue not to read it and to continue to take the approach that if she wants to talk to me, she can call me on the phone and ask to talk.

The woman who asked me about tips for getting through Mother's Day asked about how to move on. I plan on answering that in the next post. I can assure my daughter that I do not give her any credit for "helping me move on" which I have been told is something that she thinks she deserves credit for and is the kind of thinking that makes me have the reaction that causes me to wish for a thicker skin.

Ginny

Comments

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winterskibunny

As you know, bipolar has nothing to do with why I find you not nice. I hope that makes you feel good. Oooh, I am so embarrassed.

Thanks as usual for the reminder of what a selfish and narcistic person you are. Like I need them.

winterskibunny

Oh, and the reason I visit, is to point out your own bullshit. I don't deginerate you, only write about what actually happened. I would be embarrassed too if I treated my own child the way that you have, with no respect, boundaries, or caring.

Your definition of love has nothing to do with mine, and everything to do with control and your fantasy daughter.

Ginny

Hi Robin,

You sound angry. You seem to think that I am saying that your bipolar illness is the reason for our estrangement. I was not saying that. I can understand how you would be angry if you thought I was saying that.

Another reason (besides the thick skin reason) that I wrote the post was to give you a heads up in the event that I decided to visit your blog. I am aware that you get angry if your father visits your blog. I know that you feel that his visits are a violation of boundaries. I would like to respect your feelings on that point if possible. Do you want me to read your blog or would you prefer that I not read it? I am not saying that I will read it if you want me to read it as I don't know that I am ready to do that yet. But I will think about it and I would be more likely to read it if you want me to read it.

winterskibunny

The blog is not for you or my dad, but thank you for asking.

This is America and you can, as I do, but I prefer that you not.

Then the bipolar entry was just unecessary jibberish? It's clearly something. It's not a problem, I take my meds and they work well. Please do not talk about anything medical about me in the future. I talk about it myself on my blog.

Thanks.

Ginny

Robin,

Okay. I will respect your preference and not read your blog.

So you are confused about my intention for the entry about your blog and about mental illness. I wish that I could explain it to you but I don't know how to explain it better than I already have.

I'm glad that you are receiving treatment. I will always be concerned about you and want you to have the best treatment possible. This has not changed. I have done a lot of reading on these kinds of illnesses principally because of my mother's conditions and because of yours. I do recognize that you are an adult and do not need or want my input on your treatment choices at this time. I will respect that.

I can't say yes to your request that I not talk about anything medical about you or anyone else in my family on my blog. I will point out that you feel quite expert in attributing various conditions to me as you did in your reply to my post. So you are asking me to do something that you are not really willing to stop doing yourself. In fact you are taking it one step further by setting yourself up as my diagnostician.

I am attempting to understand the double standard here. But in any event, I am not able to comply with that request. But I do promise not to read your blog unless you want me to and I do recognize that you are an adult and entitled to your own opinion and decisions about what is best for you medically without my input. Is that fair enough?

winterskibunny

I really don't care. Do whatever you want.

Your actions always speak for themselves. I am not confused why you mentioned my illness, it is expected from you. It has helped me in the past, and continues to, but not for the reasons that you think.

Have a good life. I wish you could have found the peace that I have for many years now. I basically only post about you, to comment to my readers on your post. Makes some of them feel not so bad to have the parents they have. It makes me feel accepting of my decisions.

I am not angry more disgusted than anything else. I would have thought you would have grown more by now.

winterskibunny

By the way selfish and narcistic are adjectives for my opinion of you, and not a diagnosis. Though I have talked about those conditions on my blogs in reading the lists to compare to you and Tony's traits. I apologize for that if it seemed I was diagnosing you.

What I have not done is share medical conditions or procedures that I know over the internet regarding you, and your medical diagnosises even if you have shared them over the internet yourself.

By the way, I talk about bi polar all the time. You should research it more, as you obviously do not have an understanding of what it is. I am not ashamed of it nor do I blame you for it. It is much easier to deal with than asthma. I am just surprised (though I really shouldn't be) that you would take such an obvious potshot.

That is classically controlling, thought that is not a diagnosis but an adjective. And it's manipulative too. Much like the "apology" e-mail to try and stop by during your reunion that you yourself posted about.

Try to know yourself better, and don't worry about me. There is no reason for you to know who I am, clearly.

Ginny

Hi Robin,

So in order for me to understand if I have it all correct, it seems that you are disgusted with me because I won't do what you want me to do. You believe that I am narcissistic but you are not diagnosing me with Narcisstic Personality Disorder and you are apologizing if it seemed to me that you had meant that in your post (and also on your blog apparently). You believe that I know little about bipolar disorder. You also believe that I am trying to control you and manipulate you. And you believe that when I sent an apology that I was being manipulative. You also believe that I do not know myself well,that I should not worry about you. You do believe that you know me well. You believe that I am not at peace and that you are at peace. And you believe that my mentioning your disorder was me taking a potshot at you.

Do I have all that correct?

winterskibunny

I don't know you at all. I am surprised by some things that you post on the blog.

Other than tha, it's correct more or less. Whatever, it is what it is, and we have gotten here how we have gotten here.

It's not just those actions and postings, as you well know. It's not my bipolar disorder that makes me not like you. It's not just what started the rift in the first place, though that did open my eyes to what I believe your true nature is.

If it is something other than that, I will never be able to trust you to find out. I also don't believe it is something other than what I think in order to open the door in the first place. I am in a good and happy place in my life, and I don't wish to give it up......ever again. I don't believe any actions were taken to crack the door open.

I am glad you have gotten on with your life. I wish you success in what you do.

Ginny

So I have it pretty much correct but my list was incomplete? So to make it more complete and accurate, I will give it another try. I have copied in the first part and then added to it below:

You are disgusted with me because I won't do what you want me to do.
You believe that I am narcissistic but you are not diagnosing me with Narcisstic Personality Disorder and you are apologizing if it seemed to me that you had meant that in your post (and also on your blog apparently).
You believe that I know little about bipolar disorder.
You also believe that I am trying to control you and manipulate you.
You believe that when I sent an apology that I was being manipulative.
You also believe that I do not know myself well,that I should not worry about you.
You do believe that you know me well.
You believe that I am not at peace and that you are at peace.
You believe that my mentioning your disorder was me taking a potshot at you.

and additionally -----

You believe that you cannot trust me.
You believe that I know things but that I won't admit that I know them.
You believe that your bipolar disorder has nothing to do with your estranging me.
You believe that you know my true nature.
You believe that you do not know me at all.
You are sometimes surprised by things that I post.
You are in a good and happy place that you never want to give up.
You haven't seen any actions to crack the door open.
You do not wish to walk through any door.

Is that a more accurate description of what you believe?

Thank you for the wishes for success. I wish success for you too. Thank you for the apology about the narcistic/narcissistic thing.

I hesitate to offer you an apology for upsetting you by not agreeing to your request because I think that you might believe that I am attempting to manipulate you by offering an apology. So if you would like me to apologize for upsetting you, please accept my apology. But if you would prefer that I not offer an apology, then just ignore that.

I am taking into account the things that you have said as I respond to your comments. If I didn't trust someone, I know that I would find it hard to believe an apology that they offered. So unless something changes, I will keep your lack of trust in mind when I say anything such as "I am sorry."

winterskibunny

No one needs to keep account of what they will get, when an apology is sincerely offered. Whether they will be trusted or not trusted.

I just say that, so you understand my position on this. It has been 14 years, and 3 years since I found your blog.

I have explained this to you before, and I don't think anything on my blog will add any more info to you, but like I said it's a free country. YOu have lied about my feelings about the death of my grandfather and step brother in a place that you thought I would never see. It's not the audience that you said it to, but my perceived reasons (just finding out from my aunt that I felt you were mentally and emotionally abusive) for your betrayal. That and getting e-mails from a friend of yours asking why I would estrange over my wedding not being large enough.

I can only think those things were said to be intentionally hurtful, and they also enforced what I had thought before.

I do appreciate your hearing me. That is all that I asked you to do before, and that you would not do. However, I don't see at this point that it would make a difference in our relationship. I am way too much looking for the good in people, and I have made some observations on you based on a long time of reading and watching.

I have probably extended the olive branch out too much in admitting that. Or in trying to make you feel better in any way.

winterskibunny

Sorry one more point. You seem to think you have caught me in a contradiction re: believing I know your true nature and not knowing you at all.

I am not saying this to be dramatic or draw a parrell to you here, but I offer the following illistration. I know what Jeffrey Dahmer did was evil, but I do not KNOW Jeffrey Dahmer. In order to know someone, you need to spend time, a bond, and a relationship. I have spent none of those things with you nor you me.

The people that I feel love me, know who I am and they know me beyond physical, lists of activities, or accomplishments. Same thing that I feel and know about them. I can enjoy being in the same room with them, quiet, doing stuff they enjoy, doing stuff I enjoy sometimes. They may be narcistic, but possess other qualities that I enjoy in a friend or family member. I do have a friend who is quite narcistic but is also caring and loving. Or he has some narcistic qualities.

It's all in what I can tolerate to emjoy my life, and those things that I can not. No, I do not KNOW you, but I know that you do have qualities that I can not tolerate and enjoy my life. I have grown immensely since I decided that I needed two way familial relationships. I had stuck it out with dad, due to the guilt that I had not stuck it out with you. It was a really bad mistake on my part, and until I was free of that relationship, I had no idea of the other areas in my life it had leaked into!!!

Robert sees the change in me from two years ago, and he is NOT a fan of estrangement (well that is until one phone conversation with my step LOL). I am sorry that I can not look the other way at some things. However, I am not perfect and need to take care of myself as well. REally though bi-polar, PAS, et have nothing to do with the estrangement. I wish you had heard, if not agreed with what I had told you a long time ago. Then I told you again two years ago. It helps that you are now able to repeat back what I have said, albeit loosely and in your summarized words.

I don't know that I can do anymore explaining about it.

Ginny

I guess there are a few more to add to the list. I just want to understand as much as possible about your view. So these few others are:

You believe that I am looking for some sort of account if I make an apology.

You believe that I lied about my belief about your feelings about the deaths of two family members.

I'm not sure but it seems that you think that I spoke to your aunt.

I am not sure about this other thing also but it sounds as though you think that I WANT to read your blog.

You believe that a "friend of mine" sent you emails.

You believe that you are extending an olive branch.

You believe that you are trying to make me feel better.

Whew! That is quite a list.
Is it complete yet? Or would you like to add something else?

Ginny

Ah. I see that you wrote another post that I didn't see until I finished my last response to you.

You said that there are things about me that you do not want to tolerate in your life.

You feel that your staying in a relationship with your father was a mistake.

You feel that you have grown.

I am copying down all the things that you have said you believe and will respond later. I just want to understand how you see things and I want you to let me know if I have an inaccurate perception of how you see things. So that we can at least agree on how YOU see things.

So it looks as though I now have an accurate account of how you see things. Unless you want to add something else.

Ginny

Ooops! I missed one:

You feel that I didn't spend enough time with you.

winterskibunny

NO, some of these are in error, but I am tired, and felt I have spent more than enough time in my mistaken niceness on this.

It is what it is. If you want to believe that I don't know you (since we haven't really talked for 14 years) means I didn't spend enough time with you, so what. I am over it.

I won't be looking for the response. I feel bad when someone keeps questioning, but I can see that I can keep answering, but the game goes on.

It will have to go on without my participation. Sorry. This is just like when you were documenting and interviewing people before. You have ceased listening, and are now cataloging the "evidence". That's fine.

Ginny

I see you have taken offense. I was not asking these questions to make a point. I wanted to know your viewpoint.

I agree that it is tiring. I am tired too.

If you don't want to continue to "talk" with me here, that is your choice. Certainly today there has been a lot of stuff written down and it is exhausting.

I wasn't saying that about our not spending time together to make any sort of point. I had read it in your response as an item that bothered you and I had not listed it in the list above. So it was an omission that I was correcting based on what you wrote. That is the only reason I added it.

If tomorrow or another day you would like to choose one item from the list that you feel is the worst or the one that you would like me to address the most, I would respond to it. But it is up to you if you want to do that or not.

If you want to point out any errors in the list, I would appreciate hearing what you consider errors. But if you don't want to do that, that is okay as well. I truly wanted to get it right. As I said above, I wanted to write down your viewpoints so that we could agree that those were indeed your viewpoints. Then we would be in agreement on something. But, of course, you don't have to correct anything that you don't want to correct. I was trying to get it right. I am sorry that you see it as a game. It would be good to agree at least on how you see things. Apparently I have something down incorrectly but I don't know which thing or things they are.

winterskibunny

Here is my list for you, since that format seeems to make more sense for you:

1) Did not appreciate the hurtful lies on a board about my feelings about my grandfather or stepbrothers death, mainly because it was a hurtful response to your finding out I thought you were mentally and emotionally abusive.

2) You are mentally and emotionally abusive IMHO. Due to the fact that you have a one sided standard for a relationship. You are not able to accept boundaries (ie spying on me, interviewing family members, bi polar mentionings, other public board postings about medical info that could be written privately, the fact that you respond publically most of the time to your "audience", and so on....I have mentioned them before).

3) While I have not pressed for more info on your "explanation" (there was none) of your mentioning my bi polar that was outside the realm of being spiteful and hurtful, as was in the past, instead of listening you EITHER make up your own stuff or start compiling "evidence". It never ends.

4) YOu don't listen. YOu don't absorb anyway. You make up lists, answers, other explanations, but the one thing that you do not do is listen. Or acknowledge or apologize. YOu do make dramatics for being asked to acknowledge or apologize. I was at first assuming these lists were an attempt to acknowledge, but I perceive a spin on my words coming about.

5) You have shown no interest in ME while you knew me. That is evidenced in your posting about my job and what you thought my strengths were. You were so busy making up negative stories, that you never enjoyed my successes or worried about my worries. Your worries centered around not getting the perfect gift. I did try to be there for you by doing things like organizing the clean up of your father's apartment, but it was never enough. And it was always about you.

6) YOu do not know how to have a two sided relationship. You do not understand love or define it the way I do.

7) You try to control things, and slam dunk things when they do not go your way. You assume that you are the only person that has gripes, and that you have nothing to gripe against.

8) Given the opportunity to move on, instead you took the opportunity to provide me with a "therapy" letter. You could not keep your word on the way our relationship could and was planned to go forward.

9) Given the opportunity to come visit and work it out, instead you took the opportunity to give a list of demands, after agreeing that we could do things that I liked to do for ONCE. Like I would force you to bike ride or anything, that wasn't the point. The point was you were again being controlling and manipulative. That would not fly anymore.

And I have grown, and continuing a relationship with my father was a huge mistake. It is possible that dissolving it sooner could have actually saved our relationship. Instead, it gave him more a sense of entitlement for his and her actions.

This is the list in my words. If you want to reword it, those are not my words. I won't retranslate for you. I think I have been more than clear on my viewpoint. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are trying to understand, but the continued rehashing of this does no good.

I am really mystified as to what you are trying to get out of it. This has all been said before. There is nothing new here.

You could have listened and understood this years ago, though perhaps I wasn't so good at communicating. I apologize for that, however, I am not thinking I saw great examples of communicating in my childhood. I am not blaming anyone, I am just explaining as to why I may have lacked some skills.

Any how, I am really done now. I don't need responses to these, but do that for yourself if you want. You had mentioned going to my blog as a means to help you. I don't want you to, nor think you especially want to.....I am just saying, you can do what you want to do. I certaintly keep on top of what you are blogging about. I don't use it as a method of communicating with you or your friends who are visiting. I don't write it with a thought of reconciliation, and I am sure there are harsh things there.

I just do a mental dump there, and like I said you are less than 10% of my postings. And most of my postings usually come along with thoughts of what was posted on your blog.

I do read your blog to reassure myself that I have not made a bad choice. Past actions should speak for themselves, but truth be told, I find it reassuring when you keep on making the same mistakes. I should say though, I appreciate your honesty of what really goes on in your head most times. I do feel as though you are "playing" me right now. Using an empathetic tactic, which clearly sucks me in. I have to honestly tell you, I don't see a time that I will ever trust that it is so. So if you are looking to get something by providing responses that you think I will appreciate it, it is for nothing other than perhaps the satisfaction that you may have made me feel better if not trustful.

Ginny

You quite clearly don't trust me. I hear that and accept it.

If you do not want to continue the dialogue, you may stop if you wish to. Continuing the dialogue does not mean that we have to be friends. There does not have to be a goal. I accept that you do not trust me and do not want me in your life.

If you would like me to explain my post where I mention your bipolar disorder in another way than I have, I will give it a shot. Please realize that I have known about your disorder for over two years and have not, that I can recall, mentioned it on my blog previously due to my awareness that it would be a sensitive issue for you if I did. So for over two years I have not talked about it on my blog until a couple of days ago. (I am not 100% positive but I do not recall mentioning it before.)

The reason that I mentioned it is not a simple explanation. I began by noticing how often you visit my blog and that you have continued to visit despite apparently not wanting anything to do with me.

There is no real reason for you to check up on me. It seems that a good amount of anything that I say is bullshit in your opinion so you can pretty much figure out what will be here any particular day. Just more bullshit! So the reason of your coming here to detect bullshit is not particularly convincing. I do feel that you want a connection. I don't know why as you dislike me a lot.

It is not necessary to check to see if the bull is shitting or not because bulls shit. So you can continue to expect to find bullshit here no matter how often you check on me. Thus, since I think that you are a pretty smart woman, if you know that there is bullshit here and you are compelled to come and check to see the bullshit anyway, then you might ask yourself, "Self? Why am I coming here? I know there is bullshit here? Is there some other reason that I am coming here? Because I have other things to do than come here to see the bullshit that I know is here!"

Being the observant sort of person that I am, I have been wondering about that too. Why check the bull for bullshit? There must be another reason.

So I concluded that perhaps you wanted to communicate something. I became convinced of it. I wondered if you wanted me to "listen" to you. But I knew that you would not want me to cross the boundaries of visiting your blog. So I decided that nevertheless perhaps I needed to visit your blog and "listen" to you and that maybe that is what you wanted me to do. So I wrote the post and laid it all out there in its completeness, including my knowledge of your condition. Especially since I thought that whenever I write a post about you that your manic side must be triggered because the number of visits to my blog always increased so much when I wrote anything that referenced you. In the past I saw that you had visited as much as twelve times a day. So I was concerned about the effect on you of my visiting your blog and wanted you to know why I was thinking about it. I knew that you would see the visits on your sitemeter and that you could well get very angry.

So I wrote the post and explained what I was thinking about and why. So that you would know that I wouldn't show up on your blog without a concern about boundaries.

As for what I write on my blog, it is my business what I write there. I would not ask you or tell you what to write on your blog. I do not know or care what you write about me on your blog. I have no business asking you to write any differently on your blog than you do. It is none of my business. My blog is none of your business.

I do know from my visit from the link in 2006 that you used extremely crude language in reference to me. Language that was hurtful. But it is your blog and it is your business and I would not ask you to change a thing.
This is my blog and it is my business and I write what I write. I do not ask your permission as to what I write.

I will remind you again that I have known about your condition for over two years and have not mentioned it till now. For a very good reason. Two days ago I felt that I could write about it in a respectful way that you would understand. But you have not understood and you find it offensive. I am sorry that you find it offensive. Offending you was not my intention. If I had WANTED to offend you, I would have written that post very differently and I would have written it two years ago.
That is my explanation.

winterskibunny

Again, the bullshit is comforting to me. It is a reminder that I made the right decision.

If I do not hear you, I can think you could be feeling any number of things that you are not. It has been eye opening the things Tony thinks. I prefer to know, otherwise I would give you the benefit of doubt, and perhaps contact you or accept an invitation to a reunion. It's something that I believe would be hurtful to me, to just be going through the same motions.

LOL I normally visit your blog more than once when I read something, because I just can't believe you just wrote that. Or if you say you have included an explanation, I think if I read it later I will be able to decipher the code. I don't think that's part of my bipolar, but it does reside somewhere under curiosity kills the cat. You don't need to worry that I am ripping up my house or anything, it's more like "did she really just write what I think she just wrote?"

YOu can believe that or not if you want to. Interesting explanation, but why not just write to me "dear Robin, I may read your blog. I understand you have bipolar, and might be disturbed if I do." I am not telling you what to write, but as a reaching out technique broadcasting things like that are not a real good way to get a positive reaction.

Just some food for thought. Again, if you write something like that, you only validate my decision. I appreciate your honesty at these times, because to not know would have an adverse affect on me if I decided to pursue something like that. I have learned something from the death of my in laws, life is really too short. Too short in being in relationships that do not somehow enrich you, and you them.

winterskibunny

Regarding the crude language. I have been told to repress my anger and hurt so long, by Tony at least, that it is freeing to me to blog such language at times. Even you have not validated things I have said or asked, and I feel the need to shout and hurl obsenitites, because it has been frustrating my whole life.

My blog allows me the freedom to do that. It has been much more so directed at Tony than you, though you have gotten my goat a couple of times. It's not bipolar springing up, it's my therapy to myself!! It helps me quite a bit.

YOu know, bipolar isn't just "triggered". You are either in a mood swing or you are not. That being said, it does not keep you from being pissed at an injustice or manage your opinions for you. If you want to write what you want, don't ask me what you can do to respect my feelings. Just do what you are doing. My verbal pissing is not reflective of my physical state at the moment.

I understand that it serves you to think that. It frees me up from negative energy for the day to just release it into cyber space. It sometimes does not reflect positively on me, but it frees some other people up to express themselves. ie, it's okay, I think these things sometimes.

If it's crude language that I need, oh well. They are just letters and sounds strung together. If they were hurtful to you, I apologize. But remember what you have said about all the stuff you have posted as your excuse "it wasn't for your eyes". It's a double standard to expect that I might do otherwise. And it is not a tit for tat thing, I truly do feel a release when I have need of doing it.

Ginny

Well, we agree on that too ~~ that life is too short to stay in relationships that do not enrich you or me.

Since you haven't chosen from the items that you mentioned in the post above, I will choose one item that has bothered you a lot. That is about my post on Family Rifts in which I mentioned your feelings about your stepbrother and grandfather's death. Your belief is that I lied with the intention of hurting you.

If I had been in a similar position and someone had stated that my feelings were different than what I had known them to be, yes, my feelings would be hurt. That is true. So if I had been in your shoes, I am sure that my feelings would have been hurt too. I agree that such a circumstance would be hurtful.

If you had asked me about why I wrote that, I would have told you why. I wrote it because I was under the impression that that is how you had felt. Obviously I was wrong. But the impression that I had when you and I had talked on the phone was that you weren't particularly upset or grieving. I am not saying now that you weren't upset. I am saying that that is the impression that I was left with. It was probably that you did not share with me your deeper feelings about their deaths and I didn't know how you really felt.

Knowing you and caring about you, I was taken aback and surprised by what seemed to me to be a lack of feeling when I thought that you would be deeply affected. So I discussed this in the confines of a group where we were all talking about those from whom we were estranged. I accept your statement that you did feel strongly about their deaths and I apologize for stating something that I believed to be true but was not true. I always knew that you loved your grandfather and I thought that you had much affection for your stepbrother. My impression was not about how you felt about them as people. My incorrect impression was about your feelings about their deaths. I was wrong. Sometimes I am wrong about things.

I certainly wouldn't have made it up as I had no reason to make it up. I wasn't out to do any harm to you. I was trying to understand. But the facts were that you did feel strongly about losing them. I did not know that. I am sorry that you were hurt by my statement. Sometimes people can get the wrong impression about why someone is acting or not acting a certain way and I got the wrong impression. I was wrong and I am sorry that you were hurt.

Ginny

Did I say something like "it was not for your eyes" in reference to my blog? I have said that it is none of your business what I write and I have said that I do not ask you for permission about what I write or need your permission. Nor did I ask you earlier today or yesterday what I can do to respect your feelings. Which doesn't mean that I am not trying to respect your feelings. I am trying to respect your feelings but not at the cost of my own individuality and self esteem.

I am trying to respect your feelings in this case by understanding what they are, not by necessarily doing exactly what you might want me to do. If you ask me to do something that I can comply with without compromising who I am, then it is likely that I will try to do it. But if you ask me not to do something that is important to me, as my writing is important to me, then I am not going to agree to do that. I wouldn't expect you to do anything differently either if I asked you to do something that you felt was important to you.

I asked you to let me know your viewpoint and if I was understanding your viewpoint correctly. I can understand the need to use crude language. Cool! Go for it! That's great if it works for you. I have used a crude word or two myself. I am not a critic. I might not read a blog that used crude language as a main means of communication but I would defend the right of anyone to use whatever language that they wanted to in their blog. A good "Fuck you" can do wonders for the soul.

The reason why I would not email you to let you know that I was considering visiting your blog is because we are estranged. We do not have an "email relationship". I never want to receive again the kind of emails that you sent to me in 2005 and 2006. I stopped trusting you years ago and I do not trust that I can have an email correspondence with you that you will be honest about when you tell others about it. So I prefer to do things in public where there are witnesses. I probably trust you about as much as you trust me. Which means that I do not trust you. And that is why you will not be getting any emails from me.

I am sorry about that but that is the way that I feel. I do not trust you. I care about you. I will always love you. I do not love by yours or anyone else's definition. Love is a feeling and I just love. I don't go look it up in a dictionary or check to see if I am loving according to anyone approved requirements. I just love. And I love you. Fool that I am! They call fools like me a mother. Pretty stupid of me, hmmmmm?

winterskibunny

As an excuse to why you posted, you wrote it was not for my eyes on your blog. Not directly to me, but as a justification for what you did.

I find it hard to believe with the timing and all your explanation about my step and grandfather. I also find it inconcievable that you would actually think that. However, it is an example of what I mean about you tending to "make things up" consciously or sub consciously. If you don't know, you just fill in the blanks with your story, which as it happens is never with me doing well or caring about anyone.

As far as not trusting me, I don't know why you would feel that way. I feel that I have been honest and forthright. I have always been true to myself in telling you no and setting my boundaries. But you don't need to trust me, or do anything different than you are doing.

Again, it's probably best that you continue on as your doing. It is truly helpful to me. I do take your apology as it is intended, that you may regret having done me harm by saying that. I think that is all I can say on that score.

Ginny

So you have never been wrong about what someone felt or thought?

I am mystified about your reference to timing. I would have posted that in 2004. I hadn't spoken to you or seen you already for 9 years. I don't know what it is about the timing that would be unusual or suspicious to you. Perhaps you could let me in on that because I don't know what you are talking about.

You feel that I have never thought well of you apparently. That is far from the case. I was very proud of you for many things that you accomplished. It is sad that you don't know that or believe that. That is very sad. I feel badly for you that you don't know that.

You are talented in many ways, ways that I am not talented. I believe that at heart you are a good and decent person. I do not trust you because of the way that you have treated me.

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